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Post by James Kay on Dec 13, 2018 19:57:38 GMT
Current: 84 Suggested: 87
The other Nikola. Similar defensive ability, minus most of the play-making (though averaging 3.7 assists), with some insane shooting.
Stats: 20.6 points, 11.5 rebounds, 3.7 assists, 1 steal, 1 block, 2 turnovers, on 54/40/84.
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Kevin Hollis
Former Thunder GM for 7 years
All Star
Posts: 2,838
Dec 16, 2022 11:27:40 GMT
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Post by Kevin Hollis on Dec 13, 2018 20:09:31 GMT
85
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Post by George Gervin on Dec 13, 2018 20:09:50 GMT
86
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Post by Jerry West on Dec 13, 2018 21:14:36 GMT
85
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Post by Hanamichi Sakuragi on Dec 13, 2018 23:54:03 GMT
88
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 13, 2018 23:56:42 GMT
Are we really going to do this? He's gonna come back down to earth in 20 games or so and we'll just have another stock watch to lower him right back
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Post by Jared Montini on Dec 14, 2018 0:12:34 GMT
85
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Post by Bryan Colangelo on Dec 14, 2018 3:26:05 GMT
love you James,
87
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 14, 2018 17:44:33 GMT
85, But with the caveat that he's not really that close to Jokic on defense.
Jokic is top 14 in Defensive Rating top 9 in Defensive Win Shares and top 9 in Defensive Box Plus minus.
And Jokic's team is 6th in defensive rating and are 4th in opponent scoring. Denver is a legit title contender and I think that's an important factor to look at.
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Post by James Kay on Dec 14, 2018 18:45:11 GMT
Are we really going to do this? He's gonna come back down to earth in 20 games or so and we'll just have another stock watch to lower him right back If he comes down, he comes down. But he deserves recognition for how he's been playing 85, But with the caveat that he's not really that close to Jokic on defense. Jokic is top 14 in Defensive Rating top 9 in Defensive Win Shares and top 9 in Defensive Box Plus minus. And Jokic's team is 6th in defensive rating and are 4th in opponent scoring. Denver is a legit title contender and I think that's an important factor to look at. Stop. BasketballReference StatsNBA.com StatsActually based on these I have no idea what's true anymore. NBA.com and Basketballreference have completely different stats lol. So I'm not exactly sure what you're using for these stats, but they're not consistent with either of these sources. Regardless, it's like you're not even looking at Vucevic's stats. C'mon man. You're lauding Jokic for his 102 DRtg when Vucevic has a 104 DRtg. Is that really a big difference - that makes it "really not that close?" Let's see what stats you used, and I'll look on Basketballreference and compare to Vucevic's stats: Jokic's Defensive Rating: Jokic(102)(17th) versus Vucevic(104)(30th) Jokic's Defensive Win Shares: Jokic(1.6)(8th) versus Vucevic (1.4)(17th) Jokic's Defensive Box Plus Minus: Jokic(3.9)(12th) versus Vucevic(2.9)(26th) But Jokic is playing with Millsap, who is a very good defender (last year the number 1 rim protector), and there are several other good defenders on the team. If we look real plus minus: Vucevic (2.74)(14th) has a higher defensive real plus minus than Jokic (2.64)(17th). And Vucevic has a lower DFG%, on more DFGA Defensive StatsIf you wanna still rate Vucevic an 85, that's fine but you really can't justify your rating based on some perceived gap in their defensive abilities. Honestly, I know you won't change your opinion despite the facts but I had to try. Lastly I just want to point out that Vucevic is one of only three people on the Magic with a higher ORtg than Drtg lol (Vucevic, Bamba, and Augustin), it's pretty bad down there. Vucevic is literally the only consistent player they have. He's top 10 in RPM and pretty much responsible for all 13 of their wins. He's shooting lights out from all over the floor - with a better field goal percentage than Jokic at 0-3, 3-10, 10-16, 16- , and 3P - every single spot.
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Post by Mark Price on Dec 14, 2018 18:52:59 GMT
86
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Post by Brian Scalabrine on Dec 14, 2018 19:04:04 GMT
85 for me. I'll be back with the lower thread in 2 months when he regresses back to the mean
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 14, 2018 20:16:53 GMT
James KayI'm looking at the BBRef leaderboards. To be fair I'm not 100% how often they get updated compared to the other stats.
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Post by James Kay on Dec 14, 2018 20:25:55 GMT
James KayI'm looking at the BBRef leaderboards. To be fair I'm not 100% how often they get updated compared to the other stats. so you uhhh gonna address the rest of what I said/change your vote?
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 14, 2018 21:16:02 GMT
I'm waiting till I get home.
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Post by Jeremiah Hill on Dec 15, 2018 2:16:48 GMT
I'd like to change my vote to an 87. While they do actually have a similar skillset in terms of being able to move the ball, I think that Jokic has the ball handling, shooting, extremely advanced IQ and passing that warrant that separation. I think that IQ is the same reason he's been able to be a plus defender as well. I actually didn't see Vuc was passing as well as he is. And actually he's doing amazing at least statistically, its a shame hes on such an underwhelming team in real life.
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Post by Alex English on Dec 15, 2018 2:39:43 GMT
87
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Post by Walt Frazier on Dec 16, 2018 2:06:52 GMT
87 I think for now. Check in post-all-star, ish, to see where he's at and if he needs to go up or down or stay the same.
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Post by Kareem Abdul-Jabbar on Dec 18, 2018 5:27:30 GMT
86 ^^
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Dec 18, 2018 7:30:19 GMT
Thread closed after 13 votes. New rating = 86.
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