Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Nov 12, 2012 20:14:44 GMT
Los Angeles Lakers trade:
85 Kyrie Irving - $5,144,280 - $5,375,760 - $5,607,240 - $7,070,730 $9,191,949 82 - Andrew Bogut - $12,000,000 - $13,000,000 - $14,000,000 79 - Richard Jefferson - $9,282,000 - $10,164,000 - $11,046,000 78 - Dorell Wright - $3,823,000 - $4,106,000 72 - D.J. Augustin - $3,236,470 - $4,385,416 69 - Patrick Patterson - $1,959,960 - $2,096,760 - $3,105,302 - $4,319,474 2012 LAL 2ND RD. PICK 2013 LAL 2nd RD. pick 2014 LAL 1st rd. pick
Total Outgoing Salary: $35,445,710 Total Incoming Salary: $39,159,000
Miami Heat trade:
96 - Dwyane Wade - $15,512,000 - $17,024,000 - $18,536,000 $20,048,000 - $21,560,000 88 - Chris Bosh - $16,022,500 - $17,545,000 - $19,067,500 - $20,590,000 $22,112,500 74 - Brendan Haywood - $7,624,500 - $8,349,000 - $9,073,500 $9,798,000 - $10,522,500
Total Outgoing Salary: $39,159,000 Total Incoming Salary: $35,445,710
I ACCEPT THIS TRADE.
I will post more on it shortly, I am in school right now.
I'LL POST RESPONSE ONCE I GET BACK HOME WHY I AM DOING THIS.
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Nov 12, 2012 20:47:11 GMT
I'LL POST RESPONSE ONCE I GET BACK HOME WHY I AM DOING THIS. I'm pretty sure we all know why you're doing this. ...Miami?
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Otis Smith
Former Rockets GM
Sophomore
Posts: 280
Dec 24, 2013 6:32:46 GMT
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Post by Otis Smith on Nov 12, 2012 21:42:41 GMT
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JJ Savage
Founding OKC Thunder GM
Rookie
Posts: 111
Mar 18, 2014 14:23:29 GMT
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Post by JJ Savage on Nov 12, 2012 22:30:11 GMT
Is Miami getting the rights to D'antoni in this deal too? Cause im lost...
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Post by Walt Frazier on Nov 13, 2012 2:51:44 GMT
I may have to digest this thing, but one thing I know right away...I would not trade away Kyrie Irving for Dwayne Wade, straight up, at this point. Look at the difference in salary! Kyrie looks truly special already. 23 points, 4 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 steal, 2 3's on 45% shooting, 47% from the Field?! No way I'd deal him for a waaaay more expensive, way injury prone player.
So, is Bosh, along with Haywood's TERRIBLE contract, worth significantly more than Bogut/Dorell/Augustin/Patterson/1st/Two 2nds/RJeff's BAAAAAD contract?
Even if you make an argument for Haywood/RJeff canceling each other out (which I wouldn't agree with, as Haywood has 2 years longer on his deal), I really don't think Bosh is worth as much as, let alone more, than Bogut/Dorell/Augustin/Patterson/1st/Two 2nds.
Changed my mind, I don't need to digest it any more than what I just did.
Reject.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Nov 13, 2012 2:53:38 GMT
It's funny that we view things so differently, by the way. Yes, on Ratings, go Lakers in this deal. But I (almost) ignore ratings when analyzing trades. It's about real world value, and salary plus age is a big, big part of that, with talent of course being probably the biggest factor. Kyrie's production, age, and tiny salary (compared to Wade) just make him worth more to me.
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Otis Smith
Former Rockets GM
Sophomore
Posts: 280
Dec 24, 2013 6:32:46 GMT
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Post by Otis Smith on Nov 13, 2012 8:23:11 GMT
I may have to digest this thing, but one thing I know right away...I would not trade away Kyrie Irving for Dwayne Wade, straight up, at this point. Look at the difference in salary! Kyrie looks truly special already. 23 points, 4 rebounds, 6 assists, 1 steal, 2 3's on 45% shooting, 47% from the Field?! No way I'd deal him for a waaaay more expensive, way injury prone player. So, is Bosh, along with Haywood's TERRIBLE contract, worth significantly more than Bogut/Dorell/Augustin/Patterson/1st/Two 2nds/RJeff's BAAAAAD contract? Even if you make an argument for Haywood/RJeff canceling each other out (which I wouldn't agree with, as Haywood has 2 years longer on his deal), I really don't think Bosh is worth as much as, let alone more, than Bogut/Dorell/Augustin/Patterson/1st/Two 2nds. Changed my mind, I don't need to digest it any more than what I just did. Reject. I feel like you are underrating Bosh and Wade big time here while overrating Kyrie. Bogut is injured again and without him being healthy he is isn't even comparable to Bosh. Also Kyrie Irving while playing well so far his stats are a bit inflated due to the fact that he has had a huge usage rater (over 30%). Also while Wade has lost a step he is still a good defender and Irving at this point is a horrible defender. His AST% (at like 30% or something) is not that high for someone who is really ball dominant. His TS% is decently high but its being inflated by him shooting at 45% from 3 (which is not sustainable for a PG). He is not comparable to Paul or Rondo in passing or vision yet and I don't really see how he can play off the ball effectively. He will be a really good player but at this moment it makes Miami a non-contendor especially with Bosh being moved for lessor parts. Irving is a downgrade from Wade at this point and you can see that when you look past the box score.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Nov 13, 2012 11:29:36 GMT
Gimme a 20 year old doing what Kyrie is doing, making 5 million for the next 3 years over Dwyane Wade, making 12-13 million MORE per season.
I don't deny Wade is a GREAT player, even still with his age creeping up a bit and his injury woes consistently biting him year after year after year. I also see your point about it making Miami much worse in the very short term. I'm a Bogut fan for his defense especially, but he's a solid offensive player too. Dorell and Patrick Patterson both start or have started games this year already. Augustin is a very legitimate backup PG who I think could still be successful starting.
It's still possible I change my vote on this, but that's how I feel right now, still. I think there's a very legitimate argument to be made that this is also bad for Miami. Overall, that would mean this is a bad trade both ways.
I basically really do not like this trade for either team. I don't know if that means it's actually even or something, but it just feels like a bad trade that needs vetoed.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Nov 13, 2012 15:03:44 GMT
i accept this trade ill be giving away 2 stars for 3rd best center in the league + the rookie of the year. and i hope you dont let your emotions take over your decisions in parting the big 3. and as long as LeBron is on my team, ill always be a contender.
not a bad trade for me.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Nov 13, 2012 16:33:52 GMT
ALRIGHT I'll defend the TRADE FROM BOTH ANGLES MIAMI AND MINE'S (PLEASE DON'T TAKE ANY OFFENSE to RESPONSE, ). For me it's obvious, I wanted to keep Kyrie unless a GOD SEND type offer came in and THIS would be one of those times where a GOD SEND offer came in getting WADE and BOSH Obviously I am giving up a lot and it looks like it's Haywood the scrub at Center, and I have the big 3 and no one else. YOU GUYS FORGOT SOMETHING, I STILL GOT DION WAITERS FROM THE SAME TRADE. PG Wade SG Kobe SF Waiters PF Bosh C Haywood ALL HAVE LONG TERM CONTRACTS (in KB's case I have his BIRD rights). so I will be a powerhouse contender for the next 5-6 years with this team. I am well aware of Wade and his injury history a lot of players have worse injury history then Wade and still lasted long, Larry Bird had a bad back and still played until 36 years old, Kobe is 34 and has 500 million injuries. and with LBJ in MIA in real life Wade's minutes will be shorter keeping him healthy but also much more effective thus not taking the pounding he has in the past. Bosh keeps getting underrated (overrated according to a certain IDIOT in Sacramento). So it's obvious why I did it. Consider MIA and his view, Bosh is a solid player but how long will he keep getting chances with Wade and Lebron dominating the ball, he is basically and pick and pop player and nothing more. Haywood scrub and wants to get rid of his contract. For Wade, MIA may think he is injury prone and how long will he last within next 3 years staying healthy, and how effective will he be, will he still be best player IN THE NBA Wade or SIMPLY a top 20 player. Now what is he getting in return bunch of picks, nice role players in Augustin, Patterson, and Jefferson. REALLY good player in Dorell Wright who has really evolved as player since his MIA days. A top 5 Center in Bogut and another future superstar to help Lebron carry the franchise in MIAMI. with Kyrie and Lebron this franchise doesn't have to worry about adding talent or worrying about future and life after Wade, this team will be well settled with the pieces they are receiving.
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Post by Ian Noble on Nov 13, 2012 17:02:43 GMT
i accept this trade ill be giving away 2 stars for 3rd best center in the league + the rookie of the year. and i hope you dont let your emotions take over your decisions in parting the big 3. and as long as LeBron is on my team, ill always be a contender. not a bad trade for me. Do you have a long term plan for the Heat?
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Nov 13, 2012 17:10:14 GMT
i accept this trade ill be giving away 2 stars for 3rd best center in the league + the rookie of the year. and i hope you dont let your emotions take over your decisions in parting the big 3. and as long as LeBron is on my team, ill always be a contender. not a bad trade for me. Do you have a long term plan for the Heat? that's why im getting kyrie!
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Mar 2, 2024 5:20:47 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Nov 13, 2012 17:20:05 GMT
Wade at point and Waiters at small forward?! Whaaaa....
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Deleted
Posts: 0
Apr 24, 2024 21:32:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2012 18:13:47 GMT
Bosh keeps getting underrated (overrated according to a certain IDIOT in Sacramento). You hurt my feelers!
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Post by Andrei Kirilenko on Nov 13, 2012 23:42:07 GMT
Alright, I'm rejecting this for a number of reasons, but I think 2 main ones sum it up pretty well.
1) Miami would never trade Wade 2) Miami gets raped
Sorry LAL
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Post by Walt Frazier on Nov 14, 2012 0:39:34 GMT
The more I look at this thing, the more problems I see.
LAL now has 3 of his best players being SG's (with some PG skills). Wade/Kobe/Waiters are all, ideally, SG's.
IF Miami, IRL, ever dealt Wade or Bosh, I would imagine it would be for a great off-ball player or great low-post presence...not a true PG who should have the ball in his hands as much or more than Wade does.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Nov 14, 2012 0:50:20 GMT
The more I look at this thing, the more problems I see. LAL now has 3 of his best players being SG's (with some PG skills). Wade/Kobe/Waiters are all, ideally, SG's. IF Miami, IRL, ever dealt Wade or Bosh, I would imagine it would be for a great off-ball player or great low-post presence...not a true PG who should have the ball in his hands as much or more than Wade does. Wade played PG in the past under 03-05 Heat team, but less then others. And it's not as big of a issue since he sometimes runs the offense anyways, and same for LBJ. Waiters is more FLEX SG/SF.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Nov 14, 2012 0:56:58 GMT
From everything I read about Waiters, he is a SG with some PG/ballhandling skills
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Glenn Robinson
Milwaukee Bucks
Starter
Posts: 1,226
Mar 2, 2024 5:20:47 GMT
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Post by Glenn Robinson on Nov 14, 2012 1:07:26 GMT
The more I look at this thing, the more problems I see. LAL now has 3 of his best players being SG's (with some PG skills). Wade/Kobe/Waiters are all, ideally, SG's. IF Miami, IRL, ever dealt Wade or Bosh, I would imagine it would be for a great off-ball player or great low-post presence...not a true PG who should have the ball in his hands as much or more than Wade does. Wade played PG in the past under 03-05 Heat team, but less then others. And it's not as big of a issue since he sometimes runs the offense anyways, and same for LBJ. Waiters is more FLEX SG/SF. The only time I've ever seen Wade handle the ball, it was to score...not run the offense. As much as Wade is a good ball handler, he is identical to Kobe. They both need the ball to be affective and who is going to be the one to set them up? I just don't see it working in LA.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Nov 14, 2012 1:08:37 GMT
it could work you don't know.
Lebron and Wade worked pretty well.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Nov 14, 2012 1:11:24 GMT
LeBron is a wonderful Point Guard though. He's also a pretty damn good SF, PF, and a solid SG lol. He's probably a top 20 Center too.
Real point is, he is a facilitator. You don't have one on your team if this trade goes through.
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Post by Ian Noble on Nov 14, 2012 11:05:04 GMT
The biggest problem I see here is that Bogut is being hugely overrated. If it weren't for quality Centers being so thin on the ground he'd be just your average role player, in fact he's not much more than that currently. I say this as a former Australian, lol.
This trade is not about any of that though. This trade is about the fact that Troy Bolton wants to make Miami his own team and make his own mark, which I completely understand. If Miami wins the championship every year until Lebron and Wade retire, it will be the work of Pat Riley and not Troy Bolton. In the same way I have to thank Danny Ainge's GM skills, not my GMing skills, for the championship this year - and that's always much less rewarding.
The problem is that it's 110% unrealistic in a league that strives for realism, because it's been seen to vastly increase the longevity and vitality of sim leagues.
Also there's no debate to be had about whether or not we're striving for realism, and that's why:
I reject.
I offered to allow Troy to switch to a different team when he last tried to jettison Wade and Bosh. I can't really see any other way around this, although to be honest I'd be perfectly willing to accept a trade that involved just Bosh.
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Nov 14, 2012 12:00:26 GMT
BOS, what if I switched out couple of the players.
I'll keep Dorell Wright and couple of the picks and I throw in Waiters in the deal, does that change anything, just wondering.
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Post by Walt Frazier on Nov 14, 2012 13:45:08 GMT
Did you read what he just said? Not being a jerk, just wondering. One of the biggest problems for all of us is it is just too unrealistic for Miami to ship off two of their pieces. Especially if one of them is Wade or LeBron.
I disagree with Bogut being looked at as a role player. He's going through some tough injuries, but his value is legitimate when healthy. Before the big injury hit - 50% shooter, 14.5 points, 10.5 rebounds, 2.5 blocks. His defense is very, very, legitmately good...one of the top couple low-post defenders in the league.
It's not a role player. He is not equal to a Bosh or Wade clearly, but he's a damn good player.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Nov 14, 2012 14:09:30 GMT
yeah yeah...
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Magic Johnson
Former Lakers GM
Sophomore
Posts: 458
Feb 27, 2024 20:39:01 GMT
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Post by Magic Johnson on Nov 14, 2012 14:33:05 GMT
This is to MIN first.
first please don't assume just because I responded to BOS does not mean I DID NOT READ THE RESPONSE, it does make you look like a JERK.
Second if that was the case (REALISM) you guys wouldn't have allowed the Kyrie Irving trade since in real life CLE would want to compliment Bynum or another star with Kyrie they would not trade Kyrie.
Another trade would be LAC trade regarding Tony Parker or CHI trade regarding Rose, since in real life those trades are UNLIKELY to happen.
So we already glossed and crossed over that line of realism, as long as you don't trade the true franchise players of your team you are fine.
Last one is for BOS
Lastly if MIA trades Bosh only there is no reason for me to trade Kyrie in the deal cause Wade is pretty much the only reason I'd want Kyrie in this deal for otherwise.
Not blasting the CM or anything, they do a great job and I understand why you guys are rejecting it.
I don't have a problem keeping Kyrie since he is a true franchise player for future, but it would take THIS TYPE OF DEAL for me to part waives with him.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Nov 14, 2012 14:36:13 GMT
Chicago trading Rose is obviously not a good example of realism.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Nov 16, 2012 2:13:36 GMT
bump
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Post by Walt Frazier on Nov 16, 2012 2:16:11 GMT
Bumping for...? It's in the Rejected Trade section. Chicago also ended up with Chris Paul and Pau Gasol on his team, while keeping Noah, Deng, and Rip on the team, so not like he completely blew up the team or dropped in talent.
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Post by Shaquille O'Neal on Nov 16, 2012 2:33:14 GMT
Bumping for...? It's in the Rejected Trade section. Chicago also ended up with Chris Paul and Pau Gasol on his team, while keeping Noah, Deng, and Rip on the team, so not like he completely blew up the team or dropped in talent. well i had kyrie bogut lebron and friends?
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